Outlaw
One sees weird stories by watching for Google pages about Joshua McGee. Does anyone else think I’d be laughed out of writing class (and then sent to the shrink) by naming my murderer Joshua Cain Outlaw?
Not to make light of this one, as there is, after all, a dead kindergartener and a fucked-up US Marine, but really, Joshua Cain Outlaw?
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November 7th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
I think it would be really rude to use Joshua Cain Outlaw as your murderer. Yes I am aware of what happened that friday in NC but what you need to think about is how his family and friends, who love him will feel. They already have to deal with alot, please do not add to their pain and sorrow. Thanks.
November 7th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Right. But I think you missed the point. I’m not proposing that I write a story with that as the name of the murderer. My point is, the name would seem so contrived in a story I wrote (”Cain” = Biblical murderer; “Outlaw” = Corny, outdated term for a criminal; “Joshua” = My own name so that it would seem I was putting myself into the story) that the professor would think I needed psychiatric help.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
You may need psychiatric help anyways since you find this funny. I knew Josh personally, and am rather close to his family. First of all, it is extremely rude to his family and his memory that you even THINK of this possiblity. Secondly, I dont know what you think you know, but I’m almost positive it is no where near the truth. Just be a decent human being and leave well enough alone.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Hey comment…at…ors?
I think what Joshua Hill McGee is trying to say here is that “IF” he “WERE” to write a “FICTIONAL” story in a “CLASS” wherein he “NAMED” a villain “Joshua Cain Outlaw,” he would be “laughed” “at”. You see? If he had thought up that name. As fiction. It’s a different thing than laughing at the real person whose name is Joshua Cain Outlaw. He’s not doing that. He’s doing a thought experiment.
So, if you’re upset that he’s making fun of a real guy/event, he’s not. If you’re still upset that he’s even mentioning it, here’s a suggestion: pretend he made the name up! Then you can laugh at him! Everybody’s a winner!
November 19th, 2007 at 5:47 am
Dave and Mcgee, We will not ‘pretend he made the name up’. Is that so hard for you to understand? Make up your on fictional name without bringing on anymore grief to others. Quit being so closed minded and disrespectable.
November 19th, 2007 at 8:48 am
I realize this may make me look even worse, because there’s a possibility I’m missing something big, but anyway: how exactly is this adding to your grief?
November 19th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
I’m not closed-minded enough to not be able to learn a new word: disrespectable!
I was waffling between holding my ground and just deleting this post outright, but I’ve decided I’m going to hold my ground. I am not making fun of the story of Joshua Cain Outlaw. At all. If anything, I’m making fun of his parents. If your last name is “Outlaw”, do not name your child after two Biblical murderers.
Why is this so hard to grok? I’m not writing a short story with this as the name of the murderer. It’s a thought experiment, as Dave said. And who goes Googling for the name of a deceased family member? Aren’t you just asking for trouble?
November 19th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
I, for one, just think this entire thing is in horrible taste.
B.H.
November 20th, 2007 at 10:02 am
Excuse me for a moment and let me be ignorant as well, fuck you and your profoundly dumb idea.
November 20th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Hi extended family of Joshua Cain Outlaw. I didn’t write the original post, but I’m totally flabbergasted by the reaction here. To respond in kind to the most recent post: What the fuck are you upset about? Fuck Joshua McGee and his profoundly dumb idea? WHAT IDEA? WHAT IDEA? He is NOT WRITING A STORY USING THE NAME JOSHUA CAIN OUTLAW. HE IS POINTING OUT THAT:
1. “Joshua” is a Biblical murderer: “They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.” (Joshua 6:21)
2. “Cain” is a Biblical murderer: “Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.” And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.” (Genesis 4:8)
3. “Outlaw” means… umm… “outlaw”: “An outlaw is a person living the lifestyle of outlawry, meaning literally “outside of the law.”" (Wikipedia)
4. “Joshua” is also the name of “Joshua” who wrote this poste.
Therefore:
5. If (if if if if if if if if if if if if if (if implies POSSIBILITY not PRESENT TENSE HAPPENINGS))
a) The event hadn’t happened and
b) he had come up with the name independently in a fiction writing class then
c) he would have been laughed at because naming your character after yourself using THREE NAMES THAT DEFINE KNOWN CRIMINALS would have been a mark of SHITTY WRITING.
How is this a profoundly dumb idea? How does this add to your grief? Somebody you KNOW committed a double-murder-suicide and you’re upset that somebody that you DON’T know wonders what would have happened in an alternate universe if he had made the name up in an alternate universe class that he’s alternate universally taking? Really? That’s what’s upsetting you? I can’t pretend to know what it’s like to go through what those who knew J.C.O. are going through, but here’s suggestion 1: if reading people’s opinions on him upsets you, don’t Google his name. There’s not really a suggestion 2, here.
To reiterate: he’s not talking shit about your dead family member. Why would he? I would assume that it’s not necessary to talk shit about a double murderer, as it would sort of be a foregone conclusion at that point.
If the family of Cho Seung-Hui wishes to get in on the fun, I’ll point out that that murdering fuckhead had a name that sounded a lot like “Chosen One” which made me, yes, think about how lame that would have been if a fiction writer had thought it up.
This guy killed two people including a five year old child for fuck’s sake. And he should get a free pass, why, exactly? Because you knew him? You do realize that that’s not a good reason, right?
November 20th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
[…] grief, is anyone else following this thread? I realize the extended family of the murderer may be in a bad mood these days, but no one […]
November 20th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
And you do realize that just because you read the newspaper articles doesn’t mean you have any clue as to what took place in that house, right? Because don’t think for 1 minute that what you read is even remotely close. It’s the media for christ sake. The same mother fuckers who camped out just trying to get video footage of the family members with the knowledge that the girl’s ex husband is a known felon. Annnd, you also realize that I didn’t just know him, right?
And I quote “I can’t pretend to know what it’s like to go through what those who know J.C.O are going through”…so don’t. Maybe I google his name because I want to confront those that are ignorant. The original poster made the comment about a kindergardner and a fucked up US Marine being dead, he has such a way with words. That same ‘fucked up US Marine’ spent the past 5 years fighting for your ability to talk shit about him. He would have given you the shirt off of his back if you needed it, without question, yet you wouldn’t know that.
It was a dumb idea, because of the situation at hand. He knew what had taken place, and the only reason he posted it was because of it. He wanted to get a response, and he did.
You are all entitled to you’re own opinion, but be a decent person about it. If you can’t do that, then I hope that you one day have to deal with just half the pain that my family is going thru, because you don’t have a fucking clue.
November 20th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
OK, so your position is that J.C.O. did not commit the murders, and that in fact the ex-husband, a known felon, committed the murders. OK. That’s of course possible. It’s also possibly libel. When the inquest is completed, if J.C.O. is found not to have committed the murders, provide a pointer, and I’ll apologize for the “fucked-up Marine” bit, as that was entirely predicated on his alleged murder of a five-year-old.
But the thought experiment? Still a thought experiment. If my Google search for Joshua McGee had shown up a Joshua Cain Outlaw who won a cooking competition judged by a Katie McGee, Joshua Cain Outlaw would still have struck me as a name that would sound contrived as the name of a murderer in a story I might write. The rest of the post would be the same.
Pain is not fun. I don’t wish it on anyone. But are you sure that going around the Web picking fights with bloggers is the most effective thing you could be doing? If so, go at it. Rule #2 at mcgees.org gives you the right to abuse me.
November 20th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
You’re a jerk, McGee. A complete kneebiter.
Wait, what were we talking about?
November 20th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
No, not necessarily my ‘position.’ But you’re right, I give up, because apparently you know more than I do about what happend. No, pain isn’t fun, knowing that ignorant bastards like yourself are forming uninformed negative out of your ass opinions about someone that meant so much to me hurts. So, yes, I hope you get to learn your lesson one day. Maybe you should be writing your paper instead of showing your ignorance in repeated hurtful posts.
K, thanks. That is all.
November 20th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
The fact that there isn’t a paper to be writing and never was and that that’s the entire point doesn’t change the fact that you’re a complete tool, McGee.
November 20th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
This is one of the most amusing threads I’ve read in a long time.
Oh, and Josh, you’re a real first-rate asshole.
November 21st, 2007 at 7:01 pm
It is clear the “Brandi, cousin of JCO” needs someone or something at which to be angry. This is displaced anger at best.
Especially (and I hope she reads this) because:
a. No one has suggested that Joshua knew JCO, and;
b. That Joshua has no knowledge of what happened that night
Because of her pain she has missed the point and can not hear the point.
Brandi…I don’t intend this to be mean…you would do well to see a therapist. You are carrying a lot of pain with you. No matter who JCO was or what happened that night its only natural that close family members would need therapy to help cope.
Until you get help you will keep being inappropriate.
And then you would also know how futile it is to try to convince this bull-headed Joshua about anything.
November 21st, 2007 at 9:58 pm
For the record, I’ve sent Brandi what I hope was a sensitive email in which I express my hope that she has an adequate support structure in place to deal with her anger, sadness, pain, and loneliness.
I really do not mean the poor young woman ill, but she is bundling up anger and denial and vomiting them all over me and mcgees.org.
Everyone associated with J.C.O., I really do hope for a diminution of pain for you.
November 24th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Whether I am pissed off, angry, sad, emotional, and/or just outright disgusted is not the point. The point is that it is entirely distasteful to make any light of the situation and what occured. Even if it had nothing to do with me, it would still upset me that someone would be so inconsiderate of others feelings.
But thanks for the concern. It’s great that you have the compassion to email me about my support structure.
November 24th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Brandi,
Your emotional state IS THE POINT!!! The proof is that NO ONE has made “light of the situation and what occured.” The fact that you can’t hear that or see that shows you need help. (Not meant just to be mean.)
Take these to a therapist or you pastor or advisor at school and they will help you out.
Good luck.
Ed
November 25th, 2007 at 6:04 am
As I’ve already stated “Closeminded and Disrespectful”.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:34 am
fwiw, and on behalf of John Smiths everywhere, I would like to draw your attention to the BBC story being run today about a middle-aged schoolmistress in Sudan who is looking at a public flogging for letting her charges name a teddy bear “Mohammed”. It might be fiction too for all I know, but it sure as heck makes a point about the use of names. Go on, pick a side - there is no moral high ground here. if you don’t want to be offended, stay off the net.
December 12th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I’ve learned my lesson now. I will not, under any condition, mention the story of “Joshua Schaak” who shook a baby to death. I will furthermore not mention that if I were in a writing class and needed a name for someone who shakes someone to death, that I would be laughed out of class for naming the killer after myself and giving him the last name “Schaak”.
Good news on the Mohamed story is that the British citizen was not publicly flogged, but instead returned to the U.K. where, like the Internet, free speech exists.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:54 am
for jco family i would first like to ask what the fuck where.un implying about my cousins? You obviously didn’t fukin know them. So if its not true what they say in the papers then why don’t you tell me why your son of a bitch sorry excuse for a family member killed my cousin and her five year old daughter? Is it bc she had a mixed kid? You know nothing about aysa’s daddy which was NOT nikie’s husband. So its irrelavent how her dad was all that matters is he supported them. You didn’t take into consideration that he murdered my family members. Nikie was like my sis and aysa like my niece so fuck off. Those of you who think that sorry piece of shit did no wrong, hell i hope your on the same bus as me on our way down to hell. I hope you all suffer beyond recognition
December 13th, 2007 at 6:54 am
OK, time to just delete the post.
December 13th, 2007 at 9:41 am
Oh. My. God.
Jamie’s post is either one of the funniest bits of satire I have ever read, or we have an actual family feud between murderer’s family and murdereds’ family starting on mcgees.org, complete with race cards and uneducated composition.
What, all of you couldn’t get a daytime talk show to host you onstage, or what?
December 13th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
As the mayor of the altered state of Druggachusettes, I declare this thread to be… Awesome!
February 13th, 2008 at 11:34 am
February 26th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
I understand that the person who came up with this idea about writing the story was meaning no harm by putting up the idea…and i know that he found it ironic about Josh’s name…but I have to agree with Brandi it was a little rude giving the circumstances…I too knew JCO very well,i knew him for 14 years…and even though it has been 4 months since his death his family and friends i am sure are still grieving..so for you to call him a “fucked-up US Marine” is very rude and disrespectful….regardless of what he did or did not do he was still a great Marine who did not one but three tours in Iraq and put his life on the line for his country to give people the freedom to accuse him and down his name when they were not there the night that he died and the only people who were there cant tell you what exactly happened…all people can do is speculate about what happened…and for Asya and Nikki’s family and friends,I do understand that you have lost two people that meant alot to you but you should also still have respect for Josh’s family and friends too and even though you think that Josh killed them you should still understand that we loved Josh and yes we are going to mourn his death just like you mourn nikki and asya’s…we cant help that they were taken from you no more that you can help that josh was taken from us but what you can help is downing and being ridiculiously disrespectful and down right hurtful to Josh’s family and friends when they express there grief whether it is in the form of a myspace or venting our opinions in a forum..and to the women who called Josh a “son of a bitch sorry excuse for a family member” you really amuse me because after all of the shit that has been said about Josh nothing bad has been said about Nikki or Asya..not saying that there is anything bad to say about them but all im saying is why do u have the right to call my friend a Son of a bitch and sorry excuse for a family member when YOU DID NOT KNOW HIM…just as we didnt know Nikki and Asya so dont call someone a son of a bitch when you dont fucking know them….and especially when like i said before no one knows for a fact exactly what happened to any of them…and as far as Brandi’s anger..she has every right to be angry…if someone that you loved more than anything died suddenly and then people who DID NOT KNOW HIM were talking shit about him wouldnt you be angry?…you can tell me that you wouldnt but i know if you were in that situation you would be..theres no point in trying to relate to how any of his friends or family feel because unless you have had someone ripped away from you unexpectedly you cant….and if you are have had someone taken from you way too soon..like asya and nikkis family and friends..then you should show a little more..hmm whats the word..empathy i guess is the word to use.
February 26th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Oh, for fuck’s sake.
Someone murders a baby, then turns the gun on himself, and we’re supposed to feel equal sorrow for the two losses?
“we cant help that they were taken from you no more that you can help that josh was taken from us” — love the capitalization in this piece. The logic is impeccable, too.
I know you are a “Southern Chick”, as you proclaim in your email address, but even “Southern Chicks” need to get a clue that Mr. Outlaw was not in Iraq “giv[ing] people the freedom to accuse him and down his name”. He was in Iraq because Mr. Bush is a son-of-a-bitch murderer (sound familiar?) who has “daddy issues”.
I fed up with all of this. To everyone: mcgees.org is not The Sally Jesse Raphael Show. It’s not even Oprah. Save your self-righteous indignation, your poorly-penned missives, and your justifications for infanticide for a more appropriate venue. This is not the forum. I’m sure if you got on a party line and called into one of our nation’s great daytime arguing shows, they’d have you on in a heartbeat. As for mcgees.org, I’m showing you all the door.
Goodbye.
February 27th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Hooray! I argee that it’s time to shut this door! The logic that 3 tours in Iraq justifies him killing a child and the child’s mother is insanity. There is NO excuse for what reasonable people can deduce he did.
On with the show….
Dad
April 26th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Believe it or not, it degenerated after this. Thread closed, but retained for what I believe are important historic reasons.